Pirate Hour/2017-08-14

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Agenda

  • User:Angelo proposes to reconsider party communications protocols
    • abandon Etherpad and Wire on grounds of lack of auditability and transparency
    • move discussions not related to code from GitHub Issues to Wiki Talk pages on grounds of simplifying, consolidating and self-hosting
    • continue to prefer text chat over video chat for Pirate Hour meetings on grounds of searchability and scannability
    • reduce channel namespace to California, Los Angeles, Ventura County & Bay Area on grounds of simplicity
  • User:Angelo proposes holding an election to replace John Allen as alternate PNC representative on grounds of inactivity
  • User:Angelo proposes documenting a secretarial process for executing Pirate Hour in a standard fashion
    • e.g. at the end of a meeting someone:
      • posts the transcript
      • summarizes key points as minutes
      • posts a blog entry with minutes and a link to the wiki page
      • creates a new wiki page for the next meeting
      • updates the homepage widget accordingly

Attendees

  • Angelo
  • tanager
  • aaronburrsir
  • 2041876935
  • baltimorehacker

Log

angelo admin 6:57 PM
@all anyone here for Pirate Hour?

tanager admin 7:00 PM
ahoy @angelo i'm here

angelo admin 7:00 PM
whew
looks like it might just be you and I

tanager admin 7:02 PM
yeah looks like it πŸ˜•
i have dropped the ball lately on pirate stuff
i think everyone else for the most part had disengaged as well
we need some kind of reinvigoration campaign
new initiative

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:03 PM
hey guys, how are things?
we can just chat in here for now tonight

tanager admin 7:04 PM
hey @aaronburrsir2
i'm alright (barring the sorry-i-dropped-the-ball thing i just mentioned)
how are you?

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:04 PM
I think that happens sometimes
well, this weekend was kind of a trip

tanager admin 7:04 PM
that it has been 😞
we're racking up martyrs practically weekly πŸ˜•

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:05 PM
what happened was legit upsetting. I expected for there to be fighting with Antifa and scuffles etc
but not that far

tanager admin 7:06 PM
i can't say i was wholely surprised

laura admin 7:06 PM
Checking in briefly. My friend who was in the ICU died on Thursday. I need a little more personal time.

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:07 PM
I'm sorry to hear that Laura : (
Take all the time you need.

tanager admin 7:07 PM
wow @laura, really sorry 😞
hope you're alright. please do take the time you need πŸ™‚

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:09 PM
has anyone had an ideas for engagement recently?
any*

tanager admin 7:09 PM
i can't say i've had any new ideas
but the old ones still stand -- reach out to other groups, network, post on social media, attend events

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:10 PM
Yeah, all we need to do at this point is say "Well, we're not Nazis."

tanager admin 7:10 PM
i did see DSA doing some very good work on ... i think it was a soup-kitchen ?

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:11 PM
thats good

tanager admin 7:11 PM
i think we should try to do similar things
but on pirate topics

angelo admin 7:11 PM
DSA?

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:11 PM
community specific events

tanager admin 7:11 PM
yeah, direct-action, on the ground help to communities
like cybersecurity workshops or i dunno what
@angelo DSA is Democratic Socialist of America
*Socialists

angelo admin 7:12 PM
so I've been reading a bit on politics and the two-party system

tanager admin 7:12 PM
http://www.dsausa.org
 
www.dsausa.org
Democratic Socialists of America
The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States. DSA's members are building progressive movements for social change while establishing an openly democratic socialist presence in American communities and politics.

angelo admin 7:12 PM
gotcha
familiar with Duverger's Law?

tanager admin 7:13 PM
nope, what's that
oh also
i found this org called 3PA (Third Party Alliance)
that seems to be defunct but i think we should try to revive it and network with other third/non-parties
by non-party i mean quasi-parties like DSA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law
en.wikipedia.org
Duverger - Wikipedia

baltimorehacker 7:14 PM
Good evening all

angelo admin 7:15 PM
the DSA homepage seems to explicitly say that they are not a party

tanager admin 7:15 PM
aha, didn't know this had a name but i am familiar with the concept
@angelo yep, they're not a party
ahoy @baltimorehacker, good evening

angelo admin 7:15 PM
hey @baltimorehacker

baltimorehacker 7:16 PM
Did you get admin working on the meetup

tanager admin 7:16 PM
https://sites.google.com/site/thirdpartyalliance/members
 
sites.google.com
Members - Third Party Alliance

angelo admin 7:16 PM
so my dilemma with recruitment is that I don't know what our purpose is

tanager admin 7:16 PM
^ apparently someone named Aaron Renaud was involved with it, seems to be from TX pirate party, but i can't find a contact for them

angelo admin 7:16 PM
yes @baltimorehacker I got admin and I'm working on setting up a first meeting
*related to my previous statement
Laura and I touched on it a bit last Pirate Hour
that the party's purpose is to get a candidate elected

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:18 PM
that is the general idea of parties

baltimorehacker 7:18 PM
Growing the party

angelo admin 7:18 PM
but specifically activism is not allowed?

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:18 PM
I dont think thats true

tanager admin 7:19 PM
@angelo @baltimorehacker sorry i missed this before. what admin/meeting stuff are we talking about?
 angelo 7:16 PM
yes @baltimorehacker I got admin and I'm working on setting up a first meeting
activism is definitely allowed

angelo admin 7:19 PM
I don't have a clear understanding of the specific role our group should take

baltimorehacker 7:19 PM
Meetup.com

tanager admin 7:19 PM
oh we got a meetup account?
cool

baltimorehacker 7:20 PM
Check out California Pirate Party
http://meetu.ps/c/3sRJh/xdK8S/a
meetu.ps
Create a Meetup Account
Find Meetups and meet people in your local community who share your interests.

angelo admin 7:20 PM
while we're on the topic of Meetup
it's currently called the California Pirate Party but it's located out of Pasadena, CA
this means that the people that have shown interest are from our general area

tanager admin 7:21 PM
holy shit
yeah there's a lot of ppl joining on the meetup
this is excellent

angelo admin 7:21 PM
well I was expecting it
but I must say that Meetup.com feeds people and they're quick to join
but often they don't follow up
but yes it is a good sign
one man messaged and asked about the legitimacy of our party
he said that he's heard good things about the PP abroad

tanager admin 7:22 PM
legitimacy?

angelo admin 7:22 PM
but doesn't know how well it'll work in the states

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:22 PM
probably as in

angelo admin 7:23 PM
see Duverger's Law above

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:23 PM
an actual party
not just people that like pirates

tanager admin 7:23 PM
ah

angelo admin 7:23 PM
like in parliamentary countries a 6% vote wins the party real credibility
here, nothing.

tanager admin 7:23 PM
yeah we're only as legitimate as we make ourselves

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:23 PM
yeah we definitely dont have that

tanager admin 7:23 PM
i think our tactics definitely will need to differ from the european tactics
as a function of the terrain we are dealing with

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:24 PM
institutionally pretty much all state constitutions have made qualification for political parties hard on purpose for outsiders

angelo admin 7:24 PM
so here's the thing

tanager admin 7:24 PM
personally i see fielding candidates as worthwhile but not all-important

angelo admin 7:25 PM
really?

tanager admin 7:25 PM
candidates are useful for (1) publicity and (2) if you win -- probably small local elections -- some policy proposals
i think focusing our efforts on elections at this point is not a great use of our time
as @baltimorehacker touched on above, i think we really should be growing the party and the movement

angelo admin 7:26 PM
i guess i feel like if we don't set our sights on that as a hard goal than we aren't legitimate

baltimorehacker 7:26 PM
So think about uncontested elections, school board...

tanager admin 7:26 PM
we can make effective changes without having and candidatse
@baltimorehacker yep precisely
 baltimorehacker 7:26 PM
So think about uncontested elections, school board...
simultaneously, i think we should look to also perform grassroots mobilization efforts, lobbying, and networking
@angelo i think the difficulty of our goals is not a good metric for the utility of them
 angelo 7:26 PM
i guess i feel like if we don't set our sights on that as a hard goal than we aren't legitimate

angelo admin 7:28 PM
so if we can lobby current democrats to take our positions than is that good enough?

tanager admin 7:28 PM
we have already done some work on legislation

angelo admin 7:28 PM
how so?

tanager admin 7:28 PM   
@jdshutt wrote up a draft legislation for city of SF and has been in contact with the local govt about it

baltimorehacker 7:29 PM
Democrats will steal your position ether way

angelo admin 7:29 PM
that's a good point
that i've been considering

tanager admin 7:30 PM
i think we should be looking to do more of that, as well as networking with other organizations, building human/organizational infrastructure, and other things
@angelo yes and no
 angelo 7:28 PM
so if we can lobby current democrats to take our positions than is that good enough?
@baltimorehacker on many positios
 baltimorehacker 7:29 PM
Democrats will steal your position ether way
positions*

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:30 PM
well you can start up petitions on proposed law
thats how medical marijuana started in california

angelo admin 7:30 PM
propositions?

tanager admin 7:30 PM
however, there are other positios that democrats will absolutely not steal, ever, because they are opposed to them

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:31 PM
and by all rights it was successful after a very long time

tanager admin 7:31 PM
not democrats as we know it/as their current power structure exists, anyway

angelo admin 7:31 PM
so basically

tanager admin 7:31 PM
see: single-payer healthcare, mass surveillance, drone warfare, permanent war

angelo admin 7:31 PM
what i was going to say above
i want to start to build out policy infrastructure
i feel like that's where we can start to be more inclusive

tanager admin 7:32 PM
i think the petition mechanism is one good mechanism to use
(among many)

angelo admin 7:32 PM
debate policy -- lobby existing gov -- replace them if necessary
do so in a radically public fashion

tanager admin 7:32 PM
@angelo hear hear
 angelo 7:32 PM
debate policy -- lobby existing gov -- replace them if necessary
https://pad.calpirateparty.org/p/VCPP-press-kit
pad.calpirateparty.org
California Pirate Party Etherpad
^ VCPP started drafting up some language their, in prep for our radio appearance that we did

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:34 PM
I would nominate someone like angelo for leader/chair of a California Pirate Political Action Committee
basically a pirate PAC

tanager admin 7:34 PM
uh what does that mean?
like an actual PAC?

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:34 PM
the party exists to get candidates elected
the PAC would exist to further pirate causes
legally leadership has to be split
i.e. a chair in a party cant be a chair in a PAC

angelo admin 7:35 PM
i'll definitely read up more on PACs
i mean i've heard all of the horrible things they've amounted to

tanager admin 7:36 PM
hmm this talk of forming a PAC is really surprising to me

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:36 PM
well
thats how the current system works

angelo admin 7:36 PM
but I feel like we have to get aggressive
...in this two party system..

tanager admin 7:37 PM
yeah i think we need to be very smart about how we spend our money
we simply can't outspend the major parties and their backers

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:37 PM
I could see a route that goes two ways
on the one hand we try taking uncontested seats, school boards etc, then on the other side we try to push policy like what jdshutt is proposing
via petition method
and community organizing

tanager admin 7:38 PM
^ this is the route i favor

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:39 PM
both feed into each other as far as publicity goes

tanager admin 7:39 PM
yep

angelo admin 7:39 PM
the grassroots method is slow

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:39 PM
but we dont have enough people to do anything else.

tanager admin 7:39 PM
we can even field a candidate for governor, for publicity purposes (we should spend practically zero on it though)

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:39 PM
the easiest way to be aggressive is by spending money
which we dont have

angelo admin 7:40 PM
so chicken and egg?

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:40 PM
trump bullied his way into nomination and constant free airtime

angelo admin 7:40 PM
if we get on the soap box and show our teeth we can use technology to get lots of small contributions

tanager admin 7:40 PM
chicken and egg πŸ™‚ that's why the grassroots matter. at the end of the day, it's the only real politics there is

baltimorehacker 7:40 PM
Get a representative from each county to the weekly meeting

angelo admin 7:41 PM
@baltimorehacker do you think that approach applies equally to CA as it does MD?
given population densities

tanager admin 7:41 PM
CA is definitely a different beast in some ways
we're the size of a european nation

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:41 PM
right now we let anyone in because we simply dont have the density and representation in a lot of counties
lol yeah

angelo admin 7:42 PM
yeah we really have to keep perspective

tanager admin 7:42 PM
at this current meeting we pretty much have a rep from each county

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:42 PM
logistically norcal and socal are two different states pretty much lol

tanager admin 7:42 PM
VC - me, GLAP - @angelo , bay area - @aaronburrsir2
we're mssing sonoma and bakersfield

baltimorehacker 7:43 PM
The point was fundraising

tanager admin 7:43 PM
@baltimorehacker ah, right
 baltimorehacker 7:43 PM
The point was fundraising
yeah we will need to fundraise
at this point though, funds are not really what we are lacking imho -- we're lacking people
we have some money in our account that we don't have the time/people power to spend

angelo admin 7:44 PM
i feel what we lack is purpose

baltimorehacker 7:44 PM
And time?

tanager admin 7:44 PM
time?

angelo admin 7:45 PM
what i'd like to do is take the core party values: https://pirateparty.gdn/#platform and expand on them in a state-wide and county-wide context
pirateparty.gdn
The Pirate Party
show people what the state and county would look like under a Pirate government
then if they like it they'll start talking about it
they'll join
they'll donate
but now we're asking for them to come and define those positions

tanager admin 7:46 PM
@angelo i've been hearing this a lot. part of the problem is getting people to agree. i have a very clear sense of what the purpose of the pirate party is for myself, and that's what i'm pushing forward, but other people don't have the same thing in mind. this is our primary problem
 angelo 7:44 PM
i feel what we lack is purpose

angelo admin 7:46 PM
if we can't do it we can't expect them to come and do it
@tanager clean up that press kit and put it on vcpp.calpirateparty.org
one, single, HTML file

2041876935 admin 7:47 PM
Pinned a message:
 tanager 7:46 PM
@angelo i've been hearing this a lot. part of the problem is getting people to agree. i have a very clear sense of what the purpose of the pirate party is for myself, and that's what i'm pushing forward, but other people don't have the same thing in mind. this is our primary problem

angelo admin 7:47 PM
a series of <p>...</p>s
glap will do the same
we each hyperlink back to the core platform
and the core platform can link back to our county-level platforms

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:47 PM
I think we've already been over quite a lot about the basic tenets we support and believe in as a party.

angelo admin 7:48 PM
let's edge into specifics

tanager admin 7:48 PM
@aaronburrsir2 indeed, we have
 aaronburrsir2 7:47 PM
I think we've already been over quite a lot about the basic tenets we support and believe in as a party.
i think we need to agree on things in small groups and push forward on those things there

angelo admin 7:48 PM
until we have something that someone in Los Angeles can petition their local government to adopt

aaronburrsir2 admin 7:49 PM
Let's start with jdshutts proposal.
πŸ‘ 1  

tanager admin 7:49 PM
@angelo in terms of specifics, on example would be to adopt @jdshutt 's proposal for SF, to work with LA law, and petition for its adoption

angelo admin 7:49 PM
@baltimorehacker after you left #mdpp last week a discussion arose about net neutrality
this is an issue that can be understood and acted upon at every level of government
everyone should talk about it in their subgroups but there should be a super-discussion that facilitates a broader scope

baltimorehacker 7:50 PM
Yea I saw in the morning, it was outside the meeting so I didn't post

angelo admin 7:50 PM
@tanager link me to @jdshutt's work

tanager admin 7:51 PM
@angelo https://github.com/calpirateparty/CAPP/issues/20
 
github.com
Libre/open-source/FLOSS technology draft initiative -- SF Β· Issue #20 Β· calpirateparty/CAPP
"The Public Right To Use, Redistribute, And Build Upon Tax-Funded Technology Ordinance". Drafted by one of our fellow Pirates. Please participate and bring suggestions :) https://wiki.calpiratepart...
 angelo 7:50 PM
@tanager link me to @jdshutt's work
see also
https://github.com/calpirateparty/CAPP/issues/31
 
github.com
Organize legislative goals Β· Issue #31 Β· calpirateparty/CAPP
#20 #13 Some ideas from Maciej Ceglowski of Pinboard As published here: http://idlewords.com/talks/build_a_better_monster.htm The right to examine, download, and delete any data stored about you. A...

angelo admin 7:52 PM
ah thaaank you
i'd seen it before but i needed to be reminded

tanager admin 7:53 PM
yep for sure
also here is how VCPP are stating our purpose
https://vcpirates.neocities.org
vcpirates.neocities.org
VCPIRATES
> We're about bridging tech policy and social justice policy, while ensuring individual freedoms and returning power to the people and to local communities. We aim to enact policy changes on the local level and beyond that up to the state, the nation and the world.
> We're from a radically different political movement that aims to enable mass popular participation via technology. Reclaim your social and digital rights. Our tech, not their tech. Technology of the people, by the people, for the people. #SetSail πŸš€β›΅
> The Ventura County Pirate Party is affiliated to the California Pirate Party, as well as to other Pirate Parties around the world and more generally to the Pirate politics movements. Pirate parties support civil rights, direct democracy and participation in government, reform of copyright and patent law, free sharing of knowledge (open content), information privacy, transparency, freedom of information, free speech, anti-corruption and Internet neutrality.

angelo admin 7:55 PM
cool
i'll let you know when I've got the PP live system ready for some microformats on that page

tanager admin 7:56 PM
one *major* issue that i really care about is prison and surveillance tech as it applies to labor camps/concentration camps in the USA, and to USA occupation of other countries

angelo admin 7:56 PM
see that should be on the page
and you should put your name on it

tanager admin 7:57 PM
i think being the "anti-skynet" party is a really important part of what pirates should be

angelo admin 7:57 PM
or no

tanager admin 7:57 PM
which page do you mean?

angelo admin 7:58 PM
well let's take a moment to discuss
you have an opinion
it's Pirate related
if someone wants to know what the Pirate Party is about
that's partly it
I didn't even know you cared about prison tech
i'm not even sure what that means
you should talk about it
at least simplistically
where do you do that?
VCPP page or personal site?
or personal page on VCPP site?

tanager admin 7:59 PM
either or
currently we're using VCPP as a shim page

angelo admin 7:59 PM
that's literally where I'm at right now with GLAP

tanager admin 7:59 PM
just the bare basics -- hello and contact, links to other stuff

rocket.cat 7:59 PM
Good 'aye!, tanager

angelo admin 7:59 PM
i want to allow members of GLAP to collaborate on policy
wtf?
what a bot...

tanager admin 8:00 PM
@rocket.cat just does that

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:00 PM
rocket cat going off the rails again

tanager admin 8:00 PM
yeah lol

2041876935 admin 8:00 PM
leave him be @angelo
he cant be trusted

angelo admin 8:00 PM
such a cat thing to do

2041876935 admin 8:00 PM
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bentham/#Pan
plato.stanford.edu
Jeremy Bentham (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:00 PM
"The earth can't be flat because cat's would have knocked everything off it by now."

angelo admin 8:02 PM
the cat totally derailed..
where were we

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:02 PM
policy
etc

angelo admin 8:02 PM
so @tanager for GLAP I want to take that leap
where I start building tools for policy creation
pirates writing policy
https://glap.calpirateparty.org
glap.calpirateparty.org
Greater Los Angeles Pirates
πŸ™Œ 1  

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:03 PM
pirates writing policy sounds like an indie band

angelo admin 8:03 PM
pirates participating in policy production

tanager admin 8:04 PM
PWP

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:04 PM
ugh god

angelo admin 8:04 PM
fan of alliteration

tanager admin 8:04 PM
PPPP
P4WP

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:04 PM
too many ps

2041876935 admin 8:04 PM
Pinned a message:
 angelo 8:03 PM
https://glap.calpirateparty.org

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:04 PM
does anyone personally talk with JD?

angelo admin 8:05 PM
@tanager do you know if @jdshutt used some kind of template for his proposal?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:05 PM
as in, how hard would it be to turn his proposal into a state proposal, and not just for a ctiy

tanager admin 8:06 PM
i talk with @jdshutt

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:06 PM
in my mind that's how you get statewide and national publicity

tanager admin 8:06 PM
i know that he based his writing on other SF legislation

angelo admin 8:06 PM
i figured

tanager admin 8:06 PM
so probably some SF city templates

angelo admin 8:06 PM
makes sense

tanager admin 8:07 PM
@aaronburrsir2 i def think we should aim at doing this state-level as well, but strategically the city mayb be a better place to start

angelo admin 8:07 PM
well for ... reasons ... I'm focusing technological efforts at the county level

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:07 PM
we should look into the timing of it

angelo admin 8:08 PM
so I'm going to build a tool for policy creation that fits into LA

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:08 PM
california proposals are every years or 4 years?

angelo admin 8:08 PM
ah hell I don't know what I'm talking about

tanager admin 8:08 PM
particularly with something like tech procurement -- if we enact this at the state level, would it apply to State procurement, or would the State be regulating municipal procurement? these are two different things

angelo admin 8:08 PM
i need to do some research
yeah so not exactly cut and dry

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:08 PM
yeah

tanager admin 8:08 PM
@aaronburrsir2 the petition thing? every two? not sure
 aaronburrsir2 8:08 PM
california proposals are every years or 4 years?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:09 PM
it would need modification for sure

tanager admin 8:09 PM
but that's only one path, we can also lobby to introduce it via legislature

angelo admin 8:09 PM
can you guys ELI5
or give me something to google?
probably an abstract question

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:10 PM
therein lies the rub tanager. typically lobbying is only done if you have enough resources/money to lobby for it, that's why many proposals start at the petition level instead since they dont have the money

tanager admin 8:10 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_ballot_proposition
 
en.wikipedia.org
California ballot proposition - Wikipedia

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:11 PM
looks like its every 2 years

angelo admin 8:11 PM
what is?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:11 PM
california proposals, based on the year of them passing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_ballot_propositions
 
en.wikipedia.org
List of California ballot propositions - Wikipedia
sorry
ballot propositions
I'm using the wrong word

angelo admin 8:11 PM
ah ok
part of my confusion
so that sidesteps the legislative process
?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:12 PM
basically

tanager admin 8:13 PM
magic of direct democracy πŸ™‚

angelo admin 8:13 PM
k that jives with my understanding

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:13 PM
propositions start basically because the idea is either so radical or unconventional to be able to work in the current legislative framework
considered super toxic etc

angelo admin 8:13 PM
and there's typically no party affiliation
?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:13 PM
yes and no
technically yes

tanager admin 8:14 PM
@aaronburrsir2 yes, at the state level -- but at local level we have a chance to lobby successfully
 aaronburrsir2 8:10 PM
therein lies the rub tanager. typically lobbying is only done if you have enough resources/money to lobby for it, that's why many proposals start at the petition level instead since they dont have the money

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:14 PM
in actual application, no way
like
Proposition 22 (2000) (passed, then declared unconstitutional) on a statute banning same-sex marriage
it wasn't being backed by the republican party
but it totally was

angelo admin 8:15 PM
right
hah, no pun intended
but if we want to be a party
we should have an eye more on the legislative process
building tools of applying liquid democracy to it
no?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:16 PM
political parties can endorse propositions
I think

angelo admin 8:16 PM
hmm
so im thinking
we have a tool to collaboratively write a policy proposal
get it upboated
pass it on to the existing gov
have them deny it, mark it as denied
use it as justification for replacement
and/or move it to a proposition
get lawyers to approve the legalese

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:18 PM
I think that's a healthy way of going at it
"See, we tried the normal way. That didn't work. Now we have to petition for it."

tanager admin 8:18 PM
aye

angelo admin 8:18 PM
like a more sophisticated and localized petitions.whitehouse.gov
or w/e the url *used* to be

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:19 PM
rofl

tanager admin 8:19 PM
any and all ways that work

angelo admin 8:19 PM
but if I were to spend the next two weeks writing code to make it happen

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:19 PM
too bad that website is pretty much ignored now

angelo admin 8:19 PM
give me something concrete to move on -- with that direction in mind
oh i just typed that url off the top of my head -- guess it had good branding
but yeah i've never taken it too seriously
certainly not under this administration
@2041876935 think back to the consider.it discussions
loomio.**
liquid democracy
we're sidestepped total decentralization w/ the canopy
for simplicity sake
let's build it out and THEN bring people in
that's my short term approach
*opinion on a short term approach
so i see it involving a place to write your own opinions -- think personal blog
and then a policy page to merge that opinion with other opinions in the form of actionable legislation
am i wrong in simplifying it as such?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:23 PM
no, but before we go any further I think jd should be involved in the conversation

angelo admin 8:24 PM
yessss
...

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:24 PM
since it's technically his legislation right now

angelo admin 8:24 PM
or @yellowgrease
or a polisci major
but fuck it
they aren't here
let me build a tool to entice them back

tanager admin 8:25 PM
i mean tooling is good
in terms of strategy on the libre tech legislation specifically, we'll prob wanna coordinate with @jdshutt for SF mnui
muni
hard enough to get it done in just one city

angelo admin 8:26 PM
but there's people out there that currently do this every day for a living
right?
if we have a page.. and their nephew sees it.. and asks him at the next family BBQ..
just sayin..

tanager admin 8:27 PM
huh?

angelo admin 8:27 PM
hah
there's people currently procuring software contracts for the state of california
if we have a policy proposal publicly available
they can comment on it
"here's why this will never work.."
maybe they won't
but given enough sunlight they can be nudged
basically we want to recruit people
those in the trenches are the most likely to have actionable advice
am I making any sense here?
is the assumption that all current software procurement government officials are bought and paid for by democratic status quo?

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:31 PM
I honestly don't know enough about it to the answer to that.

angelo admin 8:31 PM
I'm just loosely pulling from random Hacker News comment threads I've read on the matter
people who do contract work for governments know the problem more intimately
their opinions should be solicited
we want the people to demand a more efficient and open government
but we need the technical expertise to make it happen in the real world
this really applies to more than just @jdshutt's proposal
there are "reasons" for inefficiencies
but that's just business as usual for people unable and/or unwilling to apply modern technological standards and practices
for reasons of corruptions *and* incompetence
enter.. The Pirate Party
i'm doin' a lot of talking..
this is really where the rubber meets the road
are we capable of writing law

aaronburrsir2 admin 8:35 PM
some of us are
not me personally, butr

angelo admin 8:36 PM
we have a general sense of how we want our government to be run
we can start the policy proposal process with that
start with a laymen's analysis of the issue

tanager admin 8:37 PM
hey yall, i think i'm done for the night
tired and gotta eat
this was good
https://github.com/calpirateparty/VCPP/blob/master/README.md
 
github.com
calpirateparty/VCPP
VCPP - Ventura County Pirate Party
^ i copied stuff to here and started polishing it, will continue later

angelo admin 8:38 PM
alright
i'll read it
i guess i'll just come up with something preliminarily
in terms of tooling
@tanager get @jdshutt out here for Pirate Hour in two weeks
oh and hey
before you go -- what do we have to do to get me in for PNC rep?
or someone

tanager admin 8:39 PM
good q

angelo admin 8:39 PM
we need two to be legit
i'm able and willing to show

tanager admin 8:39 PM
we should probably make a good faith effort to reach out to @longjohnsilver
(John Allen)

angelo admin 8:40 PM
his email is in the chat admin

tanager admin 8:40 PM
aye, and i've got his number

angelo admin 8:40 PM
well do that before next meeting so we can nominate someone ahead of the next PNC
oh and where the heck does the PNC broadcast their meeting dates?

tanager admin 8:41 PM
then unless he is actively interested and invested in returning to be secondary rep, we should hold a vote of sorts
@angelo in terms of PNC attendance, the roles are Primary Rep and Secondary Rep. Secondary is intended to be a backup, to attend in case of absence of the primary

angelo admin 8:42 PM
if you have any sway -- Wednesday works well for me

tanager admin 8:42 PM
in terms of voting, each State Party only gets one vote

2041876935 admin 8:42 PM
Pinned a message:
 tanager 8:37 PM
https://github.com/calpirateparty/VCPP/blob/master/README.md

angelo admin 8:42 PM
that's fine. I'd like to be there either way.
anyway.. talk to John
both of them
hah
when you get a chance
Pirate Hour in two weeks time

tanager admin 8:43 PM
they don't expect both reps to show up, and of course all pirates are welcome to attend and participate fully in the meetings regardless of party affiliation or official status
only difference is voting rights as the rep for the party
yeah i'll reach out to both johns

angelo admin 8:43 PM
k
i too am hungry
shall we call it?

tanager admin 8:44 PM
aye, sounds good to me!

angelo admin 8:45 PM
see you all next time

tanager admin 8:45 PM
aye, same

2041876935 admin 8:45 PM
text > video

angelo admin 8:45 PM 
indeed